Hi,

I have been a member of this group for quite sometime.I do believe this group which has HR Professionals across globe, associated with it, would definitely help me in finding a answer to this question...

Does B-school rank influence recruitment decision ?

I often come across alot of job postings, where it is typically mentioned that the employer is looking for an MBA from premier institute....

I also do belive that this could be a easy way to filter the applications, but i myself have heard of incidents wherein the applications have been rejected on the basis of the college they have passed even for a Management Trainee postions....

A simple question to the HR fraternity...... Does talent gets nurtured only at the top B-schools ??

Regards

lieu

Hi lieu,

I would like to speak some thing from my side regarding the question you have raised.

What you have mentioned is more accurate that many organisations carry away by the rank of the B schools, when it comes to recruitment.

Though it is true that a good set of students who pass out from B schools are nurtured with Talents but not all... Similarly a student from a B school which is not of in a good place in terms of Ranks necessarily not be a poor performer.

It actually doesn't matter where you study, but what you study and how you are going to apply your knowledge and theory into practice.

Any organisation which says that it has a fair method of recruitment should certainly consider only the talents and not the rank of the school. It is true that many organisations are loosing good potential resources on this ground.

Would like to have view from other members of the community !!

aladin

Dear Friends,

If you were to look at Fundamental psychology of personality, a person is nurtured both by genes and the environment. Any school is just like the mother's "Womb", the mother in her 10 months of nurturing process attempts to deliver a matured baby, but it again depends, what that mother is capable of. A mere commitment doesn't help here, she has to be well fed and taken care off to deliver the baby. Irrespective of the mother's capability the baby grows to become an Scientist, or an entrepreneur or a dumb guy.

The womb is the School, the mother is our teachers and we are the babies. After 10 months you better take care of yourselves, it is not the Womb that really matters but your willingness to overcome the world's battles in life, career and relationships.

Fire your thoughts.

Regards

John

Hello colleagues,

This is a discussion which often catches fire. I remember being party to a similar discussion a year back in the alumni group of one of the top ranking B- school and the divide was quiet obvious. The result was that some of them became more convinced about the concept of "Corporate Brahminism" whereas others decided never to encourage advertisements like " from the best B- Schools only like ...., ........... only" etc

Iam not an advocate in deciding whether students from the best B- schools make an impact on interviewers but i think the "Theory of Expectancy" works out here. The interviewer(s) have a positive framework on the guys and gals from the ranked B-Schools and that the students ensures that they live up to it.

Also if you look at competency theories it talks about Knowledge, Skills, Attitudes, Motives & Traits to be the prerequisites of being successful in ones own role. To quote the "Iceberg Model of competency"- Lyle Spencer:

"Content Knowledge and behavioral skills are easiest to teach. Altering perceptions, self concept values and motives is harder while changing motives and traits is possible,the process is lengthy , difficult and expensive. From a cost effectiveness standpoint , the rule is "Hire for core motivation and trait characteristics and develop knowledge and skills". Most orgainsations do the the reverse: they hire on the basis of educational credentials and assume that candidates come with or can be indoctrinated with the appropriate motives and traits.Or in, the words of one personnel manager" You can teach a turkey to climb a tree , but its easier to hire a squirrel".

Cheers

Kash

i've been a silent reader of all the issues posted on these e-groups. with due respects to all concerned, i would like to ask just 1 question.

if given an option to choose between say, the IIMs & some other B or C grade institute at the time of admission, which institute would you opt for? i would really like to meet the person who would opt for that B or C grade institute, when IIM option is available. So why is it considered wrong if the recruiting companies take a similar stand?

would appreciate views from other group members.

Thanks & Regards

rehaan

Your question is quite valid. But the issue is not the entry process, its what happens after the exit process.

Getting in to IIMs not only needs brains but also some financial denominators, If someone who hasn't got that SUPER DAD to spend for him , does that mean he is NUTS and remain that way for the entire life.

I opt out here people who get into IIM with their self earned money , I really appreciate them for their hardwork.

The only point of deliberation here is "Please do not deny an opportunity for a deserving candidate, Just because he hasn't got that Hyper tag on him". Sometimes, people are not even willing to see the resume of other candidates. WHY??

I do have a very honest respect for all IIMs, XLRIs, and other B- Schools. Infact, I did write my entrance for both CAT and XL, but unfortunately I didn't have the brains to compete then and would fail miserably even now :-)

Warm Regards

Tara

Personally, I don't think the ranking of B-School would be into consideration. To be very frank, I don't believe in the ranking system.

If I am evaluating a candidate, the following things are the ones I look at:

.1. Conceptual Knowledge (with industry example)
.2. Attitude
.3. Creativity (thinking & doing differently)
.4. Vibrant & Active

But, there are biggies (organisation) where they do take in only people from premier institutes and some say its the company policy.

Interestingly, in big organisations the kind of profile is very small...my vote would go for targetting small blue chip companies, where you can have an illustrious starting....

ALL THE BEST

Dr. Jha

Thatz a valid question indeed. We have also gone about hiring people from top institutes and ISB, one of the top Bschools in India.

That is not to say that all our managers are from the top B schools, we have a blend of people from top B schools and people with good experience and expertise in the industry, with us. There are advantages and disadvantages of hiring people from top B schools, the advantages would be excellent comm skills, process oriented & dynamic approach, so on and so forth..... but, there are a few disadvantages too, viz., exorbitant pay package, a few of them have the " I know everythin, coz I come from a top B school"
attitude.

Though a few companies really stick to the Top B School concept, most of them would be open to hire a candidate with excellent subject knowledge and work experience. It depends upon the requirement of the hiring company.

Hello Team,

When you talk about options, all have the option of getting into B schools like the IIM's. But not all make it. But does it mean that they are lesser intelligent, smart, effective, efficient, etc than those who make it to the IIM's. I guess thats not true. So why discreminate the deserving students, who unfortunately do not make it to the Top B schools. The reasons may vary. But as many people say "you have to hire for attitude". How far is this true? If that is true then does it mean that if I make it to the IIM's my attitude is the best to suit any kind of industry. I dont think so.

May be till date 'from a top B school' has been taken as a criteria while recruiting. But its high time that such a thing has to change.

Why can't recruitment be done on more solid basis. The criteria's have to be clearly defined. Come up with ways of selecting the best candidate and not make a degree from Top B school and A / B grade B school determine the best candidate.

This mail is written with all due respect to all Top B school graduates. Well done guys. You deserve what you get. But I dont think that should mean that others do not deserve as much as you deserve.

Any more to add their views..

Amarjeet

My thoughts on the captioned subject are as follows:

This B-School tag is not only applicable for MBA’s, etc but if you put the same in other context for eg – Why preferably company’s recruit Accountants as CAs from ICAI. Why not any Bcom or Mcom or with a different accounting degree with relevant experience?

I have come across many CAs who may be good at bookish knowledge but when coming to performance or dealing with staff below them they are miserable. So is the case with B-Schools.

What I would give more weightage is towards the potential candidates attitude, aptitude, learning style and job knowledge. In one sentence, whether he has relevant competencies vis a vis the job position.

Regards

hitesh

Dear Colleagues,
I was involved in selection process for one of the best Indian Industrial Organisation and my experience influences me to share with you that qualification matters only during the entry level. We selected D Phil, Ph D, MBA, CA, LL B MA even BA.

We are proud to tell you that many of them have grown as well known business leaders in India. Interestingly those who left this Great Business House - many of them are teaching at the HBS, Wharton, Boston, Columbia, Stearn - NYU and serving World Bank

- current Chief Economist of the IMF is from the same SERVICE. Some of them have joined the Civil Services and we also have an Film Director who had left the Service to pursue his dream.

We never discriminated between D Phil Ph D MBA or CA or LL B or BA.

My experience again influences me to tell you that once you select them you please treat them equally and ensure that they have enough avenues to perform, learn and grow.

It is important that the organisation behaves as a open and learning organisation, which is capable of not only attracting and nurturing talent but also is adept at retaining the talent.

With Respects,

Roger

To find an answer to the question raised, we need to see education in a different perspective. Classroom education is nothing but years of life's experiences structured and compressed for easier learning.

Japan is a great example of hiring freshers at entry level (very little lateral recruitments happen) and then banking on a great (institutionalised) system of people development by a mix of OJT and classroom training by inhouse faculty. All small businesses follow
the similar route for their people.

We would have lesser union and labour unrest as well as higher productivity, if we created one entry level and ensured contineous learning and growth for all.

Yes, I guess the bottom line of this discussion is not to bias candidates during our selection process on basis of their "institute" background.

I have seen other organisations do so & reject well deserving candidates on account of their institute background.

I guess, as a HR professional, we have to keep this point on our mind, while we recruit. Our endeavour should be to hire the right candidate for the role.

shaolin

Respected Group members

With due respect to all the biggies, I beg to say that i differ on some aspects brought out by the members.

There are good talents everywhere. Even a good student at a not so good insti can make it big. In a recent movie on opensource technologies, the bad man says.. "that competition lies everywhere...even a kid working in a garage with a new idea can put us out of business.."

My point is that.. top B schools try to follow the standard patterns... the creativity factor is missing. the case studies..always donot reflect the actual situation.. what u need to get is to get ur basics reaaally strong.. the emphasis on case studies ..does help.. but in certain terms leads to compartmentalizing problems. I hope u understand the problems. recently students from our insti got the best b-plan award at iim-a. guess what... their idea was a "disruptive innovation"..out of the normal routine. I hope this point interests u all.

Warn Regards

k Jhaveri

Respected Group members

With due respect to all the biggies, I beg to say that i differ on some aspects brought out by the members.

There are good talents everywhere. Even a good student at a not so good insti can make it big. In a recent movie on opensource technologies, the bad man says.. "that competition lies everywhere...even a kid working in a garage with a new idea can put us out of business.."

My point is that.. top B schools try to follow the standard patterns... the creativity factor is missing. the case studies..always donot reflect the actual situation.. what u need to get is to get ur basics reaaally strong.. the emphasis on case studies ..does help.. but in certain terms leads to compartmentalizing problems. I hope u understand the problems. recently students from our insti got the best b-plan award at iim-a. guess what... their idea was a "disruptive innovation"..out of the normal routine. I hope this point interests u all.

Warn Regards

k Jhaveri

Being associated with IIMA,I thought I should throw some light on the IIM's. Firstly,a large number of students who get selected into PGP are from the IIT's,primarily because of the way the CAT is structured. Most of the top and high ranking students opt for jobs with foreign investment companies/banks/other finance sectors.The rest are picked up by Indian MNC's where again the priority are finance/marketing/consultancy and so on. Therefore its schools like XLRI,TISS,which mainly cater to the high profile HR manager.And it is but natural for the Corporate HR Head (Usually from one of the better schools like XLRI etc) to keep up its demand by recruiting from the same school. But all said and done,isn't it the job of the HR person to convince his colleages or senior management about the employability of candidates who donot possess degrees from top schools but have all the other requirements/job fit needed. We can go on discussing about the merits or demerits of employing top business school graduates,but the onus lies with the HR manager who should be convinced himself that it is not the schools that matter but the person per se. Having said that,I would also like to remind of the fact that that many top business schools are expanding their capacities.In the near future,IIMA would be taking almost 600 students!!Therefore with competition in the job market getting tougher, one has to get geared up.

I appreciate your views but your contention that as Corporate HR Heads are from Institutes like XLRI, TISS, and they prefer taking people from their Institutes, seem not to be quite convincing. This is just not the case with HR, same applies to all the IIMs. Each top institue has carved out a niche for itself in particular function and hence the pass out from these institutes are preferred. IIMA has it's niche so does IIMB ,IIMC and JBIMS and so on

But that certainly does not mean that other institutes do not get a chance to enter and make a mark , in functions where you find more of people of particular institute. I have personally seen IIMC grad in HR alongwith lot many Xlers and people from other Institutes.

I hope any true HR professional will not have such type of predilections, while recruiting, because ultimately it will also affect his credibility and performance. It's not that my association with XLRI, makes me say so but the fact is that it is MERIT and only MERIT which survives Your institute can help you make early inroads but can't ensure sucess in
your career.

So my humble request to any budding professional is , whichever institute you belong to please do not carry the tag to your workplace. It will be advisable that you go there more as a student if you want to learn more.

Cheers

sid

In continaution and agreement with what Kingston says...you must realise that the institutions such as IIM,s XLRI etc. have made a name for themselves over a period of time (thru good professors, educational standards set and maintained, infrastructure, and ofcourse the earlier students passed out, etc). So the students who have studied in these instituitons cannot take merit for all the above factors. This does not necessarily mean that other institutions are not good nor students passing out from other reputed institutions do not meet the selection criteria...As HR professionals I feel we must take the first step to give everyone else a fair chance...What say you??

Hello,

I was just going through this query…"Does B-School rank influence recruitment decision". I found it interesting…but yes…it does affect the recruitment decision.

Just have a look at this. Talent market, like any other market, if I have a money in pocket, I will go and purchase the best thing available in the market….same goes for talent. If I have enough budget…I will go to the best institutes to hire the best.

Saying so, I don’t mean that talent is not available at other places…but in this competitive market…who is having time.

The way, the talent is being groomed or brought up in top b-schools is very much equivalent to a person with 2-3 years of experience. It is not the knowledge of a person which matters…but the over all personality of a person.

I can also support my views…with a statement…given in one of the leading newspaper….that there are only 5% engineers…in Andhra Pradesh…who are capable enough to get into good companies. 5% of 150,000 from 210 Engineering Institues…isn’t this figure is mind boggling. Yes, it is.

At, the end, I also like to say, that I am not for India’s Top Business School…but yes, probably I am late in my career…by two years.

You can differ from my opinion.

Cheers

Alex Boud